Recorded Live, Watch this Exciting Interview today with Joshua Native Kirk who is an Off-Grid Living Expert Reality TV Consultant, Adventurer, Minimalist, Scholar of the Woods, and Founder of 4 Winds Survival School.
Read the transcribed version below…
0:00:00 Dr. Michele Burklund: Hi, everyone. I’m Dr. Michele Burklund. I’m the chief science officer here at Puriya and this is our Living Well series where we interview amazing people and give you the tools and foundation to live a healthy life. And this week, we have a very special guest with us, we have Joshua Native Kirk. So welcome, Joshua. You have a very interesting background.
0:00:24 Joshua Native Kirk: Thank you.
0:00:27 DB: You’re an off-grid living expert, a reality TV consultant, an adventurer, a minimalist. I love the scholar of the woods, too. I think that’s perfection. And founder of Four Winds Survival School. So we have lots to talk about today about many different aspects of nature and your experience.
0:00:46 JK: Absolutely.
0:00:48 DB: So, I will read a little bit about your background for our viewers so they can understand how you accumulated all of these great life skills that we all need too. From a young age of six, Joshua was hunting game, setting traps, tanning fur, and building his family’s first homestead from scratch. People say it can’t be done. Well, they did it. You have to be willing to live small and work hard. The rewards led to financial and mental freedom and self-sustainability. Joshua has survived through one of Utah’s worst winter blizzard storms with just his saddle bags, packhorse, 22 caliber rifle, 45 long Colt, I’m not sure what that is, but to keep the bears and lions at bay. Also while feeding himself on tiny hens, wild herbs, and drinking cold water. And now, you still haven’t… You still have a home right now without central heat and air and a self-built, self-sustainable log cabin, which sounds amazing. 100% self-sustainable off-the-grid homestead. So welcome to the show. And we have lots to talk about for sure.
0:02:18 JK: Absolutely.
0:02:19 DB: I’ll start off a little bit… I think we have a hint of a delay. So I’ll wait a little bit after each question. I think we have about a one-second delay with the live. Yeah.
0:02:36 JK: Alright.
0:02:39 DB: Okay, so first off, I would love to hear more about your upbringing, because you literally grew up in this nature-based lifestyle. So tell us a little bit about your background and your upbringing.
0:02:53 JK: So, I was raised… For most people to kinda understand my background a little bit more or to be able to identify with the Amish Mennonite, that’s my background at home. I did not… I went through home schooling. My home-schooling lasted until I was about 11 then I started working full time, and it was different. I wasn’t around a lot of kids, I wasn’t around a lot of people. And when you’re young, I don’t think you know to appreciate it, you just kinda see what other people are doing and you just kinda get lost in your own world. But I think, by time I was probably six six or seven, it was just like I found an appreciation for it, actually.
0:03:56 JK: Starting off, we built our own home and saw mill. We used a wood burning cook stove, I had an out-house. I’m probably one of the only 34-year-olds living in a modern society today that had an outhouse until 11 years of age. And it created this… When you connect to nature, it helps you connect more to yourself. And we’ll get into that a little bit deeper later, but it was a change, and now I call it touching the earth. It brings an experience once you live something and you touch it and you feel it. And once you experience it, then it’s either you either hate it, or for me, it was just, it was a natural high. So I went through life completely self-sufficient off the grid. And I will tell you up front that the best therapy is not you using your rough sawn lumber outhouse during the winter, especially one with no toilet seat, because you tend to find splinters in your bum. We’ll keep it clean. And we, for some reason, never had a door on our house, so I’ve got a little bit more experience than those who had doors on their houses.
0:05:19 DB: Oh goodness.
0:05:21 JK: Yeah, so it was to learn to connect at an early age. And I loved it, actually, it’s… You know, it builds character. So, growing up like that, it really built character. We built our house ourself. When I started working full time at 11, I was really starting to read a lot. I started reading way early in life, and it’s sort of creating a vision, the future vision of what I wanted to see, what I wanted to experience, what I wanted to do, and having those self-sustainable fundamentals in my back pocket, being raised like that, you really don’t have anything else. And it puts a drive in you. I think Horace Kephart, talked and said it best. Horace Kephart was the founder of the Smokey Mountains National Park and I have worked a lot with the Kephart Foundation. Horace Kephart, he was a librarian in St. Louis Missouri, and never got out and experienced much, and he started reading and seeing other people’s stories. And things started collide, like “Man, what am I doing here in the city?” and he was very depressed. And it was the same with me. I loved the way I was raised but then I wanted to see more of the world and experience it in a deeper fashion. Yeah, that was… Giving you the early stages there.
0:06:57 DB: Nice, so the seed was planted, the seed was planted at that time, and you really found your passion in all of that. And in experience too, you found it and you appreciated it, and had to go through all the uncomfortable parts too, which, in the end, you appreciate even more once getting through there. So here at Puriya, we’re all about holistic living and embracing nature, and of course, I think you take it to a whole new level, which I really respect, and you have a very back to the basics approach. So tell our viewers more about how you live on a day-to-day basis, how you connect to nature each day and what you do and how you’re living now, if you have an outhouse or… What’s part of your daily routine?
0:07:51 JK: Yeah. I got away from the outhouses a little bit earlier in life. Got to the point where you kinda… I had a strong dislike for that, but… So, starting where you started, with holistic living. So I was born at home. Being born at home, we didn’t have… I have been to a doctor two times in my life. So when we got sick, it was all self-treated. We didn’t go to a family doctor. At that time, we couldn’t afford a doctor. So I remember breaking my arm, just to give you a quick background. I messed my arm up and we set it and wrapped it with Sheetrock mud and tape.
0:08:42 DB: Creative.
0:08:44 JK: Yeah. But I think the biggest goal with… For one thing, if you’re thinking of going off-grid, it’s a lot of responsibility, it’s a lot of work. However, I think one of the misconceptions that’s out there is health. And to be self-sustainable, first of all, you need to be self-sustainable with yourself in your own health and your fitness. I was speaking at an engagement, at a big prepper convention quite some time ago, and one of the things I was talking about is, if you can’t… First of all, if you just like being self-sustainable or you’re a survivalist, you don’t have to fit in that category to enjoy the outdoors, of course. If it’s something that you’re interested in doing or you are doing currently, then, first of all, if you can’t do five pull-ups, and you need to start investing in your fitness and your health more than buying gear. And I think that’s what it goes back to. So I grew up. We raised our own meat, we raised our own eggs, we milked our goats, we made our own cheese. Still do all of the above to this day.
0:10:04 JK: And processed foods, I think, is the biggest issue out there. I don’t wanna go too deep into that, but I think processed foods are the biggest issue. If you were planning on doing a home birth, then you can’t let yourself get out of shape. You have to prep for that, it’s not like you can… If you’re living off-grid, let’s just say you live in the middle of the wilderness and you don’t have a doctor available, and your water breaks and boom, you’re in delivery. So, plan for that. And so, planning is everything for your health, being ready for that, keeping yourself active, keeping yourself exercised, eating well. And for two years growing up, I went completely… I was a raw… 100% raw foodist. Well, I can’t say 100%. I would eat meat. Sorry, my phone is ringing in the background. I would eat meat, and the only meat I would eat was what I would actually… Had self-harvested. So, looking at that, I wouldn’t eat any meat from the store. If I went out to eat with friends, I ate a raw salad. I did that for two years. And I’m kinda doing that. So basically, the only meats I eat now is pretty much what we raise. Sorry, we’re gonna pause this for a second ’cause my phone is going nuts. My apologies.
0:11:29 DB: That’s part of being live. It’s part of the live fill in.
0:11:35 JK: Yeah. Alright, so moving forward. Health is a big thing and sacrifices. When you eat healthy, you’re making sacrifices. And by saying that, you’re not partaking in everything else that everyone else is doing. And it builds your psyche, it builds self-motivation, especially when you start seeing a change. You start feeling that change on the inward man, experiencing it psychologically speaking. It’s like the psychology of survival, and I think fasting. I still fast 24 to 48 hours a week, because I think fasting is one of the most important things for the human mind and the body. And human mind first, because when we think survival, it’s from neck up mostly, it’s all skillset. It’s knowledge is power, it’s in the head. So, fasting teaches you patience. It creates an experience that you can have with nature to connect, because that’s what we were meant to be, indigenous peoples living off the land, and we’ve gotten so far away from that. It’s a little… I’m kinda hardcore about this, but it’s a little disgusting at times, in my opinion.
0:12:50 DB: Right. I feel like everybody is trying to go back to exactly how you live and how you were raised. I think they went so far one way that they’re all trying to go back and do all of these amazing things that you’re doing now too. And I mean, right now, I feel like in the last couple years, there’s so much research on intermittent fasting, exactly what you’re doing. Science is finally catching up and talking about it, even though it’s been an ancient practice for thousands of years. We’re finally catching up, or at least part of us are. Part are still going down that way and part are waking up and wanting that basic life, which is almost the luxury now, instead of the basics.
0:13:36 JK: Well, something I was thinking about the interview yesterday. I was in the back country and you talked about intermittent fasting. Indigenous peoples in the past, they didn’t have a choice. They fasted as they were hunter gatherers and that’s what they were doing. They were going out gathering, bringing their food daily, through meetings with the herds, they were following the herds. As the herds migrated, the buffalo, the elk, the deer, etcetera. And so, what does fasting do? It connects us back to our… Let me think of a way to say this without getting too… We’re indigenous peoples first. We might not be in the place we were originally, but we are where we are now, by choice of course. Being that is, what does it take to get back to that?
0:14:36 JK: So, to get back to that, what is it gonna take for me to… First, I need to learn to say no to some things. And so, technology. We’ll talk to technology. Technology in America, and the world as a whole, to the point where, and we use it as business, so there’s people that could call me a hypocrite, I’m on several social media sites out there for business. However, I don’t allow it, and would never allow it to trend. So I don’t follow trends. And so, before we can talk nature, first we gotta talk, because we’re dealing with 21st century. So when we look at a 21st century society, that has supply and demand and a house on Main Street, for what? For freaking a currency, for a trade to have goods, that now we eat because there’s so much… There’s so many things out there that we don’t need. The main essence of life, of survival, the actual definition of survival means “the art of staying alive”.
0:15:45 JK: We need food, we need fire, we need water and we need shelter. Each metaphorical shape-shifting of the mind, and by metaphorical shape-shifting of the mind, what that does is it allows us to step away from a 21st century and find our “spirit animal” so we can’t… Our spirit animal can’t be a fish, because a fish lives under water, we can’t live in that environment. So we have to look at the environment that we live in and say, “Okay, what can I identify as? What do I wanna go back to?” So you could identify as a bear, you could identify as a wolf, a coyote, a fox, etcetera, but the whole idea is that to take metaphorically and transition the humanistic mind into the thoughts of that animal. That animal cares nothing about cake and icing and technology and telephones and televisions and going out and partying on the weekends.
0:16:47 JK: They don’t care anything about that, what they care is about where they’re at. They care about the moment that they’re living in. So what does it take to live? First of all, it’s interesting kinda wanting to go back to the basics because now, they’re wanting to reconnect because we made a disconnection because of technology. And I’m being long winded so just give me another second here. So for us to go back to nature and to understand how nature lives, for us to immerse ourselves in the wild, first of all, we have to disconnect from the modern world. How do we do that? And the best thing to do is to take time for yourself and go out, whether it’s on a hike, whether it’s starting out slowly, going biking, going camping, getting out there. And I recommended that first of all, because of the social media, and so many trends, and we can pick up a telephone and call someone anytime that we want to, we’ve gotten so wrapped up in society’s drive for currency, that we really don’t even… We have this available in ourselves. All we just have to do is exercise them, the skills that it takes to live, going back to food, fire, and water, and shelter.
0:18:14 JK: To disconnect from that, we need to do it alone. So, what happens when you go camping alone and you get out in a dark place by yourself? You don’t have someone to lean on, so to speak. All the trends go, then you’re dealing with environment, climate, and opposition. Your environment, it could go… Be raining, it could be snowy, so the environment, then the plants that are around you, the climate. You might be in a tropical climate, you might be in a cold climate. Also, the opposition. Opposition could be wildlife, but most of the time, opposition is yourself. So by going alone, it makes you disconnect from the whim, and fight you. And sometimes face your own demons, because you face fear, anxiety, and all of these things. And these, we create habits, because we’re used to having a phone to text on or something like that.
0:19:16 JK: So by being by yourself, it forces you to reconnect and face your own demons to the point where you can connect back to who you are and who you were created to be. And once you can do that, then you can reconnect with other people. Because until then, if you don’t know yourself, how can you connect with other people?
0:19:40 DB: Right, right. I 100% agree with you, especially in today’s age where everybody is looking down and holding their phone and not paying attention to the world around them and when you’re in nature… I’m a big fan of hiking alone and I’ve done a lot of those things alone. I don’t have the greatest survival skills, so I’m more of like a car camper alone than [laughter] deep in the forest [laughter], but I completely support you and support that idea of being alone and celebrating yourself, getting to know yourself, getting to know the environment too. I think that’s huge. Yeah, I would love to take it to a new level. I don’t feel like I have the skills that you do, to really do that, but I think that’s amazing. I think that’s great information too, for our viewers, that it’s… To go within before you go without, too.
0:20:38 JK: We can fast. Most of the time, when we talk intermittent fasting, we’re talking about food, but just I’m gonna throw a tip out there, so if you got a notebook handy. So, what I teach my students, I have a class called Vision Quest, and it’s a very tough course, but what we do, we go out and we completely, we leave all technology behind. And when I’m talking about technology, we do away with modern technology such as metal blades, such as a cordage, such as packing food in. Because once they get to that point, and you’re not just gonna go out in the woods and go on Vision Quest, it takes learning and education to get the to that point, of course. But once you’re there, you wanna educate yourself. There’s so much material online, and when it comes to identification and tree identification, and things of that nature, but there’s also a lot of bad information as well out there. So you almost have to like, wean through the bad and glean the good, but there’s something euphoric about going on the land and not taking anything with you and eating the plants.
0:22:03 JK: I get goosebumps when I talk about it. It makes me slow down, actually, whenever I think about it, but there’s something about going out there and harvesting those, you know, fishing and catching fish, and partaking that from a fire that you’ve created with your own two hands. And fire is so important, not just for cooking food and purifying water, but it’s also, it’s a purification for the soul, it’s purification for the mind. It’s stood around on the fire and you just kinda get lost glaring at the fire and just you find yourself just kinda daydreaming in awe of the dancing flames.
0:22:43 JK: And it’s such a euphoric thing to experience. And so, getting back to my point is, if you’re wanting to reconnect with yourself, you wanna reconnect with the land. Well, don’t just do intermittent fasting with your cell phone. Do intermittent fasting with your television. Take time. You know, if it’s an hour a day, when you don’t have business. If you’re a business owner, I get it. Hey, I’m there, I understand. It’s like you feel like you’re on call 24/7 but you have to let go. So, fast. Take the time to go on a small hike without a cell phone, without any connection with the outside world. And you’re gonna notice as soon as you do, you’re gonna feel fear, a little bit of fear. If you’re not used to doing this, you’re gonna feel a little bit fear, and a little bit anxiety. And in the 21st century, people are like, “Oh that’s bad advice, because what if something happens?” Well, if something happens, good, because now you’ve gotta rely on yourself more and that’s even why you’re studying and training to be prepared for that. One thing that I realised is that, I don’t have to rely on anyone. I don’t have to rely on anyone, anyone to bring me all of these, we call, necessities of life.
0:24:12 JK: Because truly, I don’t need to, I’ve done it my whole life and it’s… Is it for everyone? No, but if you wanna reconnect and fast from those things because, one more… When you think indigenous peoples, which we are, we were born with the tribelike… We were born to… In a tribe, you have those that are hunter gathers. You have those take care of camp, you have those who gather firewood, you have those to who are master crafters, who craft clothing, who may do bead work. And inside the tribe, you will trade amongst your fellow men, you will trade it. And your early indigenous tribes were matriarchal societies, actually. We won’t get there yet, but… So they would trade. But now, in society, we’ve got to the point that it’s all about what I need, what I want, what I can take, and not give. And that’s a major issue in society. We would come back to that mentality, then people would get along better and that’s another battle for another day. But somebody’s gotta start it at some point. So learn the fasting from the technology.
0:25:44 DB: Yeah, I think that’s a perfect point. And that’s pretty much the question I was going to ask you moving on, is since you specialized in off-grid living, which is technically a permanent digital detox in a way, different ways for people who live busy lives in urban areas to be more self-sufficient and live off the grid? And I think you answered that perfectly with getting them out in nature, having them do these exercises with themselves, and tuning in is a great start just to build that connection again. Definitely. I’m going to ask you the next question, which I’m very interested in myself too. So you have survived through one of Utah’s worst winter blizzards with just your saddle bags and your pack horse and a 22-caliber white rifle. And you did this in the worst winter storm eating wild herbs and drinking the cold water. So, tell us about this experience. Tell us how it happened, how you ended up through in the blizzard and how you got through it too.
0:26:57 JK: A friend of mine, we were going to buy a sailboat and we were gonna sail to Brazil, and that’s how it started. And we didn’t know anything. And so, but his cousin did, and his cousin was gonna go with us. Well, cut a long story short, his cousin got hurt before the trip, and he was like… I called him up. Well, he calls me up and he’s like, “Hey, my cousin got hurt, blah, blah, blah. We’re not gonna be able to do that now.” And so, I was like, “Well, let’s grab the ponies. Let’s ride across the State of Utah. Let’s do the no technology. Let’s cut a trail, you know.” And I was 23. I’m 34 now. No, excuse me, I was 21. I’m getting old already. 21, man, come on. Maybe because in modern society, to take a saddle on board a Frontier Airlines flight and put a saddle in overhead baggage. So yeah, that was interesting. So yeah, we went out. We just wanted to ride.
0:28:17 JK: We wanted to disconnect and get away from things and we started this ride, and ultimately ended up in the Uinta mountain range. Well, the first three to four days, we were in hail, like literally an inch of hail. It was hail, thunder storms. It was just the craziest… At the end of July, going toward the end of July. I had prepped but I had one pack horse, really no crazy heavy coats, just some rain slickers and stuff like that. Had a 22-rifle to be able to take small game. I had a 45 Long Colt. A 45 Long Colt is actually a caliber. I had a Colt 45, Long Colt pistol with me, and it’s a big enough caliber so if you get charged by a bear, it’ll stop a bear, keep the mountain lions at bay, so to speak, keep the predators at bay. And we’re going up, we had been going up a switchback and we get up, I guess we’re about… We got up to about 9000 feet above sea level. And all of a sudden, a blizzard just hit us. It was actually known as one of Utah’s strongest in 15 years or better. And it just… We’re getting pounded by snow. Our horses are tired already. Things were just falling apart really, really quickly. 60 winds. The winds were so strong. You couldn’t, it’s impossible to get a fire going unless you’re doing a Dakota fire pit, which is an underground fire. You guys can Google that, what a Dakota fire pit is.
0:30:14 JK: So anyway, we get up there. The horses are up to their chest in snow, and we’re stuck for about, I guess, four to six hours. You kinda lose track of time. And I went through the first stages of hypothermia. When your body… When your core temperature drops and your body starts… You getting those shakes, that’s your body’s alarm going off saying, “Hey, you need to warm up.” Well, I went past that to the point where my lungs became dried out. Snow, you can’t see two foot in front of you. It’s a complete whiteout. And we’re high up on the mountains. And after being stuck in it, you become numb. You get to a point where you become sleepy. When you start to get sleepy, if you fall asleep then, I mean, you don’t wake back up. So, we’re just… Our horses have given out.
0:31:16 JK: And I get a little emotional talking about this sometimes because it was a change for me. I changed a lot of directions in my life at this point in time. But we’re up high. Everything’s going to a hell in a hand basket, so to speak. And the clouds moved just for a minute and I could see below the storm and I knew we needed to get below the storm and we went off a side of a ledge that wasn’t designed to be going down on horses, wind up rolling, of course, busted a few ribs, a finger. But we got below the storm and for three days, it took over three days to recoup from that blizzard, just from the hypothermia. It wasn’t like we just walked into the storm. We’d been dealing with a lot of cold inhalation and all the rain and we’d been soaking wet the whole time. And…
0:32:28 JK: Once we got below the storm, I mean literally hobbled my horse, stripped down, built a huge fire and walked around naked for three days, drying all our stuff out. And it was like the most euphoric time in my life because it just, it made you just… It’s like, people are living right now and they don’t know it. Because they… It’s like, they get discouraged in life, people fight depression, they fight anxiety. It could be your job, maybe you hate your career, you know… You hate some of the choices that you made. Don’t give up.
0:33:22 JK: It’s like when you see your own blood, then you realize, “Oh man, I am alive”. You know? And when you start seeing your life leave you, it wakes you up. So I’m going to… As an encouragement to the listeners, you know, it’s like, you might be going through hard times, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t change. You can change right now. You can start making better decisions, you can make better choices because your health, your wellness, is the most important thing in life right now. Because it’s like lying. If you’ll lie to yourself, you’ll lie to anyone. And if you’ll treat yourself to too much food and to too much technology, you just give yourself away and give your mind away to all this trash that’s out there, you’re destroying yourself. If you’ll destroy yourself, you’ll destroy anyone. And now is the time to change. And coming off that trip, I knew what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to teach everything that I had been raised around and it’s… And now that’s my go-to.
0:34:24 JK: I disappear in the back country, but I’m prepared for it. And when we talk about getting away, if you’re not comfortable getting… Going out in the middle of nowhere, you shouldn’t. It’s ignorant just to go out to the middle of nowhere and not have any sort of skillsets behind you. So, do some research first. Prep your mind, prep your body, prep your skills. I always say, if you hone your skills you will own your skills. Get your skills up, because sometimes it’s prepping here first. And once you start prepping the mind then the body, you get the body going out in nature, then you’re confident. And there’s no greater feeling than going out and knowing that, “Man, I could live here, I could be a… ” So there’s no better time in the world than now to start making good decisions. Sometimes it takes a little time to get away from the bad decisions, but people don’t need to go through what I went through to get my experience and it wasn’t on purpose, of course, but it was a wake up call for me, “Man, what am I doing? Where am I at?” So, matter of fact, I just lost my Dad. My Dad died two years ago, right about two years ago.
0:35:54 DB: I’m sorry.
0:35:56 JK: And it was a toughest time of my life. My dad got killed on the same… Cutting a tree down, the tree kicked out and I escaped to the woods because it was so emotionally traumatic for me to lose him. I knew that I couldn’t be around society, so I escaped for about three-and-a-half weeks. I was trying to maintain normal everyday things, but I made sure in the evenings, I was disappearing. And then finally, I wound up staying on for a couple of weeks, getting away from everything. And I remember one night, I was sitting around a fire and I was… I’d been so depressed about losing my dad, thinking all these negative thoughts. And it was about 1:30, 2 o’clock in the morning, it was cold out, it was late fall. And I remember I just stripped off. I stripped off butt-naked and I jumped into this freezing cold pond. And it was like every negative thought that I had left immediately. And it was like I woke myself up, by… And I was like, “Oh my God, I’m still alive!” All the negativity left and it was like I was baptised.
0:37:22 JK: I get goosebumps thinking about this. When I jumped in and I come out of that water, it was a new beginning for me, and sometimes that’s what we need to do. Sometimes you just need to strip yourself down of everything and dive into nature, and you will be so happy and so thrilled with what you come out of. And sometimes it’ll break you. You know, sometimes that’s what it takes is getting out there by yourself and hitting that point where it’s time for change, and when I… But when you go in the water and you come back up, it’s like, “Man!” or like, “Oh God, I’m still alive!” I remember just coming out of that water and I was… Couldn’t hardly breath, swimming back to shore, got my buffalo rug, and wrapped my buffalo rug up around me and got by the fire. And it was just like… And it was, it was, again, it was that… We need that. We’re human beings, we’re emotional, we face troubles, we face trials, we face tribulations. We need a rejuvenating, rejuvenation point somewhere, whether it’s daily, or weekly, or monthly in our lives, to cope with all the bullcrap that’s out there. Because we are not designed to deal with all this technology, we are not designed to follow trends and do what everybody thinks is cool, because it steals our character, it steals our soul, it robs us from ourselves. You know?
0:38:46 JK: So what are we doing with our life? What are we doing? I didn’t mean to get too deep, but I was like, I’m just trying to kinda relay some of my experience.
0:38:58 DB: No. I think that’s very, very powerful too. Just with your first experience in the Utah winter storm and with your dad you took these two very, very intense emotional, very hard experiences and transitioned them in a way that you realized your own mortality. You appreciated the moment more and your life, and then also you used nature as your outlet to get through all of those emotions. And I think the stress level of everybody in today’s society is so high. And it’s so unnatural in so many ways. And what you have been able to do is to use that outlet and then to appreciate those things too, appreciate the nature and appreciate where you are, and at that moment, by dealing with your own mortality and your father’s death, I think that’s incredibly powerful and I’m glad you shared that with all of us too.
0:40:02 JK: Well, we have to… Yeah, I think that’s the biggest issues, and I’m no therapist, by no means, but I think that’s one of the biggest issues with marriages now, I think relationships as a whole. People get married because of trends. They get married for all wrong reasons, whether it’s lust, or greed, or… How can you pick a partner in life? How can you pick a partner in life when you don’t even know who you are as an individual? You haven’t taken time to spend time with yourself, face your own demons, yet you’re willing to take the responsibility of going into a lifelong relationship with your partner and you don’t even know who you are. I think the best thing that a person can do is to spend a minimum of two weeks alone somewhere. If you’re thinking of having a relationship, a life-long relationship with a partner, go spend two weeks by yourself in the middle of nowhere.
0:41:10 JK: Just go spend two weeks by yourself and see who you are before you try understand someone else because I promise you,it’s gonna change you. And you might even find you might wanna go, you might spend two weeks and realize, man I need to go spend a month. Because how can we connect with another human being, when we can’t even connect with ourself? And it’s impossible to be able to do it with technology. You have to break that mold. You have to get away from it and immerse yourself in the wilderness, partake of what we were designed to be a part of, that we’ve gotten so far away from.
0:42:01 JK: Understand yourself, and then you understand so many things. I had a youth that I was teaching, teaching to camp, spending some time with a youth and they had never camped out. And they went out and went camping, went out camping for the first… And they were sleeping and woke up the next morning, and I asked them, I said, “Well, how was your experience?” I was working with a group and I said how was your experience? And [unintelligible] if I woke up and felt like all the birds [unintelligible] things in life that we need to get back to, simplicity is alive. You know, you might [unintelligible] I don’t care if you do or not, but a good quote, “The little foxes will spoil the vine.” And I think it’s a little thing [unintelligible], it spoils us. It messes us up. It deters us. It’s technology. It’s our job. It’s our careers. It’s because we get so surrounded and immersed into careers, for what?
0:43:16 JK: What is your motivation? Like I don’t mind… There’s nothing wrong with going out and hustling, getting your hustle on. If you want nice things, there’s nothing wrong with that, but don’t forget about your inside, you’re inward man because there’s a lot of people that are depressed. There’s people out there, they’ve got [unintelligible], but they battle with depression and anxiety because they don’t take the time to understand who they are. And I can’t push this enough. I can’t beat this… And it’s like a friction, it’s like a bow drill fire, a friction fire. It’s like a song in the fire. You start off with a tempo of rolling the wood on wood and you speed it up and it builds the friction and as you build the friction, it gets hotter and hotter. And then all of a sudden you have a coal and then you take that coal and you put the coal into a tinder bundle, blowing oxygen into it and it combusts into fire. And that’s who we are as human beings. Sometimes we need to take time and put oxygen in and we have that spark. We have that ember, it turns into a flame and we kindle that, we have to re-kindle ourselves. So, it’s learn yourself before a new relationship. Who are you as an individual?
0:44:49 DB: Right, right. Yeah, I have it from a different perspective, but I think we kinda converge on the same plane because I lived in Greece for many years. And Greece is where the ancient philosophers came from. And Socrates, “Know thyself.” They spent… They lived in caves for years, trying to figure out who they were and clearing their subconscious, and what’s going on, and what’s them, and what’s not, and dealing with nature. And so, I’ve been exposed to that very heavily when I was in Greece, and studying from them, and going to the caves where they lived, and everything. And I think that it’s human nature, it’s the core to develop. Even Hippocrates, one of the fathers of modern medicine, but the irony is, I guess he’s a founder of modern medicine, but his core was tuning in to your body, learning to listen to yourself, finding everything from nature. Like the art of hydrotherapy, to even jumping into cold water, all of these different things. So I 100% agree with you, and I see it from a different perspective from a different country, but at the same time, everything comes together and it’s going for that common goal of finding yourself and tuning in with nature, and finding yourself in nature too. I think that’s very beautiful.
0:46:19 JK: There is something beautiful. I have a theory, it’s probably not right, but it’s my theory, so I’ll keep it. But there’s something about… It’s like, you know it’s beautiful to walk barefooted until you step… So it’s like you have to be aware because… And I got bit by a rattlesnake last year, luckily it didn’t penetrate my boot that I had on. This is not where I was going with that, but I have a theory. There’s something about getting dirt under your finger nails, it’s a beautiful thing to get. And that’s why so many people connect with gardening, because we are organic [unintelligible] that has the breath of life in us. And when we die, we’re gonna go back to Earth, back to land. It’s not gonna matter about your career, your career is not gonna matter, how much money you have is not gonna matter, none of that stuff’s gonna matter. Well, you’re just gonna be organic dust, you’re gonna go back to the earth, and your breath of life is gonna… Your air, breath is gonna be floating around in the atmosphere, and whatever you believe, whether you’re Agnostic or Atheist or Christian, it doesn’t matter what you believe.
0:47:35 JK: But one day you’re gonna go back to organic material. And we walking, breathing [unintelligible] organic. And so when you go out and you get your hands and fingers in dirt, it’s my theory that that dirt gets up under your nails, all those minerals and all those good things that [unintelligible], the water. Just there’s so many good things in the earth that we need, [unintelligible] that it gets into your nerves and hits your bloodstream and it becomes part of your DNA, and you actually can become one with the earth, and that’s why you fall in love with certain pieces of ground that you work, or your gardening spot, or… And that connection that’s deeper, it’s because you are in it, you are taking in the minerals and taking in all those positive things and healthy things. And you get to visualize it, maybe look at the flowers or your bushes, shrubs, whatever it is that you’re working with, and it’s just like… So being able to get out there, it’s a connection point. And it’s just, it grounds you, it just grounds you. And it’s like, “Man.” It’s like, you know about it, I always brought it up. It’s like they’re doing things in life, they cure these disease things.
0:49:06 JK: But they like go… They can do anything in the world, but they go camping and get away from everything, and build a dang fire. Why is that? It’s because it’s what we were created to do, everything is going natural. So it’s like it’s not even a part of us, it’s not even who we are, we don’t need all this crap, it’s like, we could… This crap around us, we just choose to do it, because why? Because we have this thing in our head, this false need that, “Oh, I’ve gotta have that to live, I’ve gotta drive this to live, I’ve gotta wear this to live. I’ve got to have these things to be accepted by society,” and it just shows weakness. And that’s why I feel like I’m… And this is arrogant, what I’m about to say, but I can walk amongst kings and peasants and treat neither no different. I don’t have a problem because I know who I am as an individual. And it takes breaking down. Sometimes you need need to go back to the cave to find it [unintelligible]. There’s a lesson that you just brought out, a good point, there’s a lesson that sometimes we just need to go back to the cave. That’s gonna be my new quote.
0:50:24 DB: Yeah, definitely. No, I know. My dream too is literally to go into a cave in Greece for a couple of months, at some point that literally is my dream, to go deeper. The philosophers literally went there for years. But with the balance of life and work and everything, I think for me it’s just it’s a beautiful experience. And I think really what you’re telling everybody too is finding that balance, understanding why we’re here and tuning in with nature. And what’s so interesting is there’s so many amazing trials right now in health, that are saying, “Oh, people have less allergies if they’re around more animals, or if they garden or they play in dirt their immune system is stronger when they’re older.” This is basic knowledge that you would think, “Okay, I’m in nature, I’m playing, this and this should normally happen,” but we’re finally using science and saying, “Yeah, this is exactly how we’re supposed to live.” And it supports your body in your stress and everything, ’cause they need that side as well to prove that…
0:51:31 JK: Oh yeah.
0:51:36 DB: Definitely… So, I’m going to ask you a question… To a more practical question. So everyone has the dream, you know, of running off and living in nature away from the hustle and bustle to live the simple life. But it’s also very hard work, like you’ve said. What do you want to tell our viewers about your personal experience? And they have this idea that they wanna… You know, they’re living in the city now, they wanna change their life. What would… What advice would you give them on how they could… How it’s like living off the grid and would you recommend it to them, or have them kind of go in a step-by-step process? What would you tell them?
0:52:25 JK: So, the first thing I wanna… I wanna add to something right before you asked the question, but…
0:52:34 DB: Mm-hmm?
0:52:36 JK: We live in a protective society.
0:52:38 DB: No, no problem.
0:52:38 JK: And this is gonna take us right into the question. We live in a protective society. First of all, if you get the kids off the Nintendos and let those youngins get dirty. Kick ’em outside because you’re gonna see it’s gonna change them in a good way. Get ’em outside.
0:52:57 DB: Mm-hmm.
0:52:57 JK: Take ’em outside. I had to say that, I’m sorry, it drives me crazy. And plus, it’s gonna give you a minute by yourself. Get the kids outside. Turn those little suckers loose, you know. It’s like, so many people protect, protect, protect, protect, and they’re, they’re actually doing more harm ’cause… Talk about violence, oh my God. These Nintendo games, and all this crap, Anyway. Let your youngins go get dirty, that’s one piece of advice. But, to answer your question.
0:53:31 DB: Mm-hmm.
0:53:32 JK: You know, homesteading and living off-grid is tough. You’ll know within the first two weeks if it’s for you or not, I’ll tell you that up-front. It can be really difficult… And I always give everybody the negative side before the positive side. I grew up like this, so it was the norm for me. But I want you to think about something. Before, if you think that you wanna live off-grid, I would do it on a trial basis. I think if that’s something that you’re wanting to do, I would tell everybody to do it. It’s an awesome thing, the sacrifice… But the sacrifice is way awesome reward. First of all… Go do it on a trial basis. Go rent you a place, spend the money. I see so many people that’ll go out a buy a piece of property. I’ve seen this thousands of times. Hundreds and thousands of times. People just they get this idea they wanna, they go buy a piece of property, they spend the money on the property, they build this cool little cutesy house that’s trendy and then they hate it. They absolutely hate it, because then they realize all the work that goes into doing it. And then I’m seeing just the opposite. I’ve seen people do it, they’re like, “Oh my god, this is amazing!” And then they sell everything they have for the rest of their lives. But do it on a trial basis. Go out, rent a cabin in the woods somewhere for, I’d do it for three months.
0:55:19 JK: Rent a cabin in the woods for a couple, two or three months. There’s so many coalitions out there, I’m sure you could actually, probably group with someone else that has the same idea as you or something like that, because it’s tough. I mean, when you go out there, if you’re used to being on your Lay-Z Boy and reaching over and turning a dial to set your temperature, I got news for you. If you go off-grid, unless you are willing to deal with solar, it’s not going to be that way. But… But, but, but… The positive side. It is so amazing to know that you’re not relying on any outside source unless it’s just an extra, like if you have a propane tank or something like that, you wanna use propane or you wanna use solar. I mean, there’s, God, technology is… In a good way, how with solar power and LED lights and little [unintelligible], all these things, it’s nice. The beauty is when you can walk outside and see your garden that you’re eating and just, it’s a part of you. No noises outside, it’s a life-changing… I’ve experienced the good and the bad, I mean, I almost got kicked off of the homestead before. Know your laws, you know, there’s another piece of advice, know your laws. You don’t want to go buy a piece of property somewhere that has got [unintelligible].
0:57:09 DB: Mm-hmm.
0:57:10 JK: And then go to building an off-grid house and somebody gets ticked off about it and calls the law, so I mean, yeah. We live in a society where I think people sometimes get jealous. And I’ve dealt with the positives and the negatives. Do it on a trial basis though, go out and rent a place for a couple months, or a month, see how you like it. See if that’s what you wanna do because it can change you. I’ll tell you something too, it pulls you away. The more you do it, the more you dive in, it’s gonna pull you away [unintelligible], ’cause it’s gonna make you use your mind in a way that you never have before, because then you’re responsible for everything. You don’t, you’re not relying on the power company, and relying on the propane guy, and relying on the natural gas people, and relying on the water company to get your water to you. It’s gonna make you start thinking as a primal individual and it’s gonna get you to a place that you wanna be, I can promise you that you wanna be. But the rewards is bar none the best high out there.
0:58:34 JK: It’s amazing. It’s like harvesting your own food in the wild, utilise every portion of that species, every bit of it. And when you when you do that, and then you’re like, I’m getting more than just meat and clothing or meat and hide, bones, I love the marrow of the bone, I make needles from the bone, I make arrowheads from the bone. I’m just in love with it. So and then, once you start diving in, it’s like homesteading, once you start diving in to the homesteading or off grid life, you’re going to learn so much. And again, get with a group of people. There’s so many groups out there. Get with a group of people that are like-minded because you’re going to have so many haters out there, people are going to come against you, you’re going to do a lot of haters.
0:59:26 JK: People think I’m crazy for saying this, but I’ve seen it. Find like-minded people. Get rid of the negative people out of your life anyway, besides that. Negative people in your life, you’ve got to walk away from that. I think that’s one thing the bigger things, that they make like they’re attached to negative people, and they have to be attached to them because of blood or something like that. You can love someone from afar. So start here, mentally, read studies, study up on it. Figure out which off-grid lifestyle you want to do or what kind of homesteading you want to do. Work on yourself before you start making big decisions because it’s going to make a difference.
1:00:13 DB: Mm-hmm. Definitely. And it always starts within. And I like the idea of going slow to taking baby steps into it, giving it a trial run instead of jumping in selling every thing and buying land. And I think that’s great and to talk to other people and experience it for a little bit too. Because, yeah, you can either love it or it can be a little too hard and a little too uncomfortable. I can see that too. So I wanna talk to you about the school you have. So you’re the founder of 4 Winds Survival School, and you teach people a lot of great skills, like primitive fire building. Tell me some of the skills that you teach in this and how we can all kind of benefit and the people that you teach. Who do you teach at this school? Is it kind of a mix of everyone, or… Tell us about that?
1:01:11 JK: Yeah, so I start with the basics, I start them with a basics course, basics class. And It’s called a FWS class, it’s fire water shelter class. And what I do is just typically we’ll go out for a day. And we go over the basics, like food, fire, water, and shelter, why we need them, when we need them. And how to really attain that. And so we start with the basics. And then it’s a progression from there. I’ll teach basically in the beginning, and I’ve got a few things here. I’ll just get them out. So we’ll actually go over… We’ll do an assessment. A lot of times, most of the time that’s the first thing I do is backpack assessments, or survival tool or tool assessments because if you’re a hiker or you’re a camper, I think it’s awareness, you need to have awareness because there’s always opposition out there whether it’s wild game, wild predators, or other human beings, as far as that goes.
1:02:18 JK: So what we do is we take and we teach how to properly use a lighter, properly use a match and then we go on to the Ferro rod, Ferrocerium rod which is, they strike it, it throws off sparks that are up to 3000 degrees in heat, and they will ignite tinder. So basically we’ll take someone in, and we’ll say, okay… I’ll give them a list before they come to the class and say to pick this up at a local Walmart or something like that. And teach them the basic necessities of… So when we think of survival, where we think of going out there, we have to think tools first because tools are a very important thing.
1:03:00 JK: So what tools does it take for me to get started and it’s not expensive, you can spend as much money and it’s just like getting a car you want but it’s not needed. So first thing you want some kind of a cutting tool so you can cut things and process firewood, etcetera. You want some sort of combustion device whether to be able to create fire, and that can be lighter, it can be a Ferrocerium rod. To create fire by friction, it can be flint and steel. So you want a cutting tool, a combustion device for… You also want some sort of cordage. I like 550 cord, parachute cord is fine just to be able to tie things up, to build proper shelter, this makes it easier. Also, you’re going to learn the [unintelligible]. But I also have a container here, and this is important because this is one of the most difficult things to recreate from the wild, in the bush so to speak. A solid waterproof container that you can not only cook in, cook things in, but you can also purify your water in this container by taking off the top and filling it up with water and letting it come to a rollover boil for 15 seconds and that will purify the water from Giardia or Cryptosporidium, etc.
1:04:40 JK: And so it a container a very nice thing to have. I see a lot of hikers running around with these plastic containers and I’m like, unless you have some sort of a LifeStraw or purification tablets or purification straw to purify the water from Giardia and Cryptosporidium or any other water pathogens, then you need to be carrying some sort of a stainless steel container in your pack when you’re hiking or out and about because with this, it’s got so many… It’s a multifunctional piece of equipment so it can support…
1:05:13 JK: So [unintelligible] nice cordage, a container and you want some sort of a shelter, a cover. And when we think of shelter, why is shelter important? Because what if you’re on a small hike and it starts raining or starts snowing, or… So we go with the basics of like a tarp at first, we use a tarp and how to make different kind of stations of shelter with using a tarp. Or you can do away with all that stuff and go 100% primitive, how to knap your own cutting tool, how to make a primitive fire for combustion, [unintelligible] plant life, and actually make your own cordage. And then also how to, once you get your cordage, how to make a proper cover out there out of using raw natural limbs and dead fall and leaves and just whatever’s in your environment that you live in and then also we [unintelligible] as well, how to make a container from the wild that you can carry and be waterproof and how to do it all natural. So it starts off and by the end when you go through the full class, you could literally walk with nothing into the woods and use those skills but I do tell people, if it comes down to a survival situation where you do a primitive fire, friction fire, you’ve messed up and screwed up in so many situations, that’s bad.
1:07:03 JK: So prevention, preventative maintenance is one of the best things. And also I teach psychology of survival, how to connect, as in metaphorical shape-shifting of the mind, how to get away from the humanistic ideology and reconnect with nature, better understand how to look and track and understand [unintelligible] that are on the [unintelligible]. That’s a bear, that’s a wolf, these are things I don’t want to be running into because when you’re in the wild, everything needs water and that’s one of the biggest mess-ups I think that I see is people just go blind-sidedly into a watering area, watering hole in a very remote wilderness and boom, they run into a bear or something like that. So we teach, I call it psychology of survival… Survival psychology, which is one of the most important things. So yeah, I cover a very large variety and I have all walks of life of people come to me.
1:08:11 DB: Very nice. Yeah, I just remembered something which is hilarious, and it goes really well with this. So I was on a run probably 10 years ago in downtown Seattle and it was 10 o’clock at night, running towards the beach. And no one was around, it wasn’t residential, or anything, all the businesses were closed and there was this wrestling in the bushes, right? Maybe like, five feet ahead of me. And it’s just me, I don’t have my cell phone, I don’t have anything, I’m just running and a bear comes out of the bushes in the middle of the city. Like you think you’re going to be in nature or something and prepared. And I didn’t move, right? It was like me and a black bar just staring at each other five feet away. I’m like, “Is this real? Is this happening?” and I didn’t move. It was more shock and then the bear went across the street and ran up. But I’m like, “Is this what I’m gonna do in nature? Am I just gonna stand there?” I was just more in shock. How would that ever happen to anyone? How would they encounter a bear, alone, in the middle of the city? It’s crazy, but it always makes me realize, how would I respond to that in nature?
1:09:31 JK: That happens.
1:09:33 DB: Yeah. And it was real, they spotted the bear in other locations, so it was a real occurrence.
1:09:41 JK: And that’s one of the things that I focus on, especially in early stages, and something I keep a reminder, is situational awareness. I think first aid is one of the most overlooked things across the board, hands down. When it comes into a survival situation, you have more chances of getting attacked by a shark if you go to the beach several times a year than you do falling into a survival situation where you’re there over 72 hours. And so what I most of the time teach is based on up to 72 hours. What do I need to carry, and the biggest thing is the preparation before, situational awareness. I have been charged by a bear. I got chased by a bear two weeks ago. I encounter bears a lot of times. It’s once a week.
1:10:39 DB: Wow.
1:10:40 JK: It’s just part of the country I’m in, but I’ve also been robbed three different times and so I teach self-defense. I teach a lot of different things, so we dive into a lot of different things. And yeah, if you live in the city, you need to be thinking what’s situational awareness, understanding the environment that you’re in, whether be a restaurant. I’m more spooked in a restaurant, when I go into not knowing what’s going on or [unintelligible] that’s out there in today’s world. Situational awareness is a very, very, very important thing to be aware of. When you walk into a place where’s the exits, how many people’s in there, learning how a profile people a little bit. Then when you’re in the wild, when you go into the wild you want to say, “Okay, that’s bear scat on the ground, right there. I don’t need to be continuing in the direction that I’m going,” especially if you start seeing tracks and you see signs on trees.
1:11:49 JK: But let’s just hold that direction. Then if you encounter that bear, what’s next? What’s the preparation you know of what if? And like you said you were in the city, that’s something… A bear, you’d least expect it and it’s like proper first aid, proper tourniquets. When we think tourniquets. I might not fall into a survival situation… First aid classes as well, wilderness first aid, but what if we’re out and I break an arm or I cut one of my arteries or I cut a vein? What’s a proper tourniquet to use? How do we use a proper tourniquet because there’s this misconception that’s out there that people think they’re just gonna pull their belt off and throw a belt on and I’ve got news for you, you’re gonna die.
1:12:36 JK: When you think of your arteries, and your largest artery, and the smallest vein in your body you can bleed out of, completely bleed out in a little over three minutes and the largest, I think, is around 60 seconds or so, you can bleed out. There’s so much involved to be prepared for. So what are you biding your time with now? It’s like to me, I want to know I can protect myself. I can protect someone else if needed, because if you fall into a situation… Because once you fall into a situation, just like you said, you kind of froze, you’re gonna drop to about 10 to 15% of what your training is gonna be. This is a military thing, the military teaches it. You’re gonna drop whatever your best training is, you’re gonna drop to about 10 to 15% of that. So that’s why I practice, practice, practice, learning how to use this. Everybody has car insurance, everybody has house insurance. Why not have insurance in yourself? Self-sustainability is probably the best insurance out there without a doubt.
1:13:50 DB: Definitely, definitely, no question. So I want to ask you one last question ’cause I know that we can talk pretty much forever. It’s very interesting all of this, but I wanna know what you’re up to now. You’re a reality TV consultant, you have a lot of great things going on in school. So tell us what you can about what you have going on right know.
1:14:18 JK: Yes, going on. I do a lot of things. I’m an entrepreneur. I enjoy just doing what I wanna do in life, not what I have to do. And I run a buffalo ranch, so I raise buffalo daily. I’m around 215 buffalo. I have a school, I’m also, I work with several major television networks and I am under contract with one of those networks, and I won’t go any further than that. But look to the future, you might see something come up on your screen. And I approach it from a different perspective. I teach. When I’m working I do a lot of risk mitigation, risk assessment with a lot of television, if someone’s going on or they’re doing something, sometimes it’s behind the camera, it maybe even might be behind a computer or over a telephone consulting, or they’ll fly me in to location and I’ll do assessments that way because for these shows to actually kick off, there’s always the background guys that set things up and I’m one of those guys, so I get to travel a lot.
1:15:36 JK: Also, I was a musician somewhat professionally for about five years. So I play, I do at least two to three gigs plus, music gigs, actually around Wyoming weekly. So yeah, I’m a singer-songwriter. I have a lot going on consistently. And then also, I guide hunts as well. I’m a trapper. Not culturalistic skills, but indigenous primitive skills, back for what we call… When a child is going from a child to man or from a girl to a lady. So call it rite of passage. So I help them with the rite of passage, how to dive into nature and do it from a primitive standpoint. So I have a lot going on.
1:16:27 DB: Yeah, definitely. But it’s very inspiring too. It seems like you’re following your passion. You’re doing everything that you love doing and it all involves and revolves around nature too, which is inspiring, I think, for all of us.
1:16:43 JK: Well, you know, it’s not work if you enjoy doing it.
1:16:54 DB: Exactly, exactly, exactly. So how can people get a hold of you? What if they wanna go into your school or if they have questions, how do we find you?
1:17:06 JK: So the best thing is actually, I’m not as active as… And it’s for specific reasons right now on social media, or whatever. My personal page, if you look up Joshua Native Kirk. You can go to Joshua Native Kirk, shoot me a private message. And I also, I don’t mind giving my cell phone out. Everybody’s like, “Oh God, I can’t believe you do that.” No, I’ll give my cell phone out. If you call me and I don’t wanna talk to you, I just won’t talk to you. But also the business line is 678-898-5099 that’s 678-898-5099. That’s my cellphone, you can call me. And like I said, if you’re interested. Also, or you can shoot me an email, at the number firstname.lastname@example.org. One more time number 4 winds W-I-N-D-S email@example.com. Shoot me an email or you can go on my Facebook page. 4 Winds Survival School on Facebook, like I said, shoot me a friend request or shoot me a private message and we’ll connect one way or another. I’m old school, I like a telephone call too, that’s… A telephone call or an email, probably most… Or text. Text and email is the best way, because I’m out of service all the time.
1:18:38 DB: Well, thank you so much. It was inspiring and educating, and thank you for taking the time during your extremely busy day too. You definitely have a lot going on, but I appreciate it and I think our viewers will be very inspired and educated and motivated to get out there. So thank you very much, Joshua.
1:19:01 JK: It was my pleasure, thank you.
1:19:05 DB: Take care.
1:19:05 JK: See you.
1:19:07 DB: Bye.
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We named our interview series ‘Living Well’ based on the Ancient Greek term Eudaimonia translating to “doing and living well”. The Greek Philosopher, Aristotle uses this term in relation to balance in all areas of life. At Puriya, we believe that living well encompasses much more than health but all aspects of life.